Public Discussion Forum

We are at Lantau Yacht Club, Discovery Bay, Hong Kong, completely loving the new Shangri-La 6047 and have been working diligently to get to know the boat, unpack the contents of a 40 foot container, test and learn all the systems, get warranty, Selene and owner commissioning done and putting the boat into some state or order, and really enjoying ourselves. What we are not doing yet is installing the Lewmar Epsilon anchors, 50KG and 63KG, port and starboard sides respectively, as they are in storage at the Asian Tigers warehouse and we are maybe a week out from that event. We have not left the dock yet and are not complaining.

What I can say, after too much boating experience to admit, including owning three big boats in the last 25 plus years, is that I have for a long time looked at anchor testing done by lots of testers and have concluded that anchoring technique likely controls the outcomes of most testing of anchors in the same class. Not much of it seems to be done with regard to some standardized protocol. I think the Epsilon is pretty much a beefed up Ultra without quite as many pretty curves at around half the price for our SS hooks. The geometry is quite similar if you look at them together - both are next generation anchors using good design ideas, shared by others in the class. The sizes we chose are a step up from what Lewmar recommends for our two applications on this boat, port side 50KG and 100’ of chain then 300’ of rope rode so I can take an anchor out in a tender and kedge off if necessary (which has happened two or three times in 25 years), and starboard side 63KG and 400’ of chain, for normal use. All of the chain, which has a lot to do with how any anchor performs, is massive 14mm stock, which is an impressive sight. With enough of this chain I could probably drop a 150 pound slab of concrete in a washtub off the bow and stay put; But what a lack of elegance that would display up front. I like my SS jewelry soon appearing on the bow pulpit. I also carry a folding Fortress FX-55 with smaller chain and rope rode for use off the stern or if needed for any other reason.

There are tests in the various reports out there where any anchor does well or fails. I think technique, water surface condition and swell, size of vessel and height of bow, wind, weather, current, and bottom composition all are such variables that most testing is of questionable objective value. If one has a next generation anchor made by any of the big names (Ultra, Rocna (and Vulcan), Lewmar, Mantus, Sarca, and several others) and good and patient anchoring technique is used, gradually setting one’s anchor slowly in a decent bottom, paying out rode slowly, giving the anchor time to slowly and properly set itself, and with heavy chain and proper scope, that your vessel should stay where you put it.

My two cents. Back to the lazarette to organize some more tools.

Jack

Capt. Jack Burgess, Shangri-La 6047

We also have a Sarca Excel (#13 - 63Kg) with 7/16 G4 chain. It has performed extremely well, and we anchor out a lot. It has dragged 2 times I can remember, both times in soft mud and high winds. I suspect most anchors would have had trouble with those conditions.

Richard Nye

Untethered, 57-22

https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/MV_Untethered/

We have a Sarca Excel #11 (55kg) with G4 3/8” chain and have been very happy with its setting and holding ability around the great loop. Fits well in the standard bow roller setup on. 2001 47-005.

Thanks,

Steve Kent
914-202-5506

Hi Jack,

I'm going to replace our old 50kg Bruce on our 53 for a newer design. After much research I've narrowed it down to the highly rated 55kg Vulcan or the Epsilon in 50kg or 63kg if it will fit. I don’t want to spend the big bucks for an Ultra or a stainless Vulcan (3x the price of galvanized!). I do like the idea of a beautiful, stainless anchor up front, but only if it performs. We have 400 feet of 3/8” chain.

My concern with the Epsilon stems mostly from SV Panope’s test where it performed more poorly than many others. The Vulcan did extremely well. But that’s one source and I know you didi a ton of research. My questions are:

- Does the 55kg Vulcan fit nicely in the stock 53 pulip/roller setup?

- Have you got some real world experience with the Epsilon yet?

I don’t want to write off the Epsilon from that one test. It’s a beautiful anchor at a great price. But does it perform?

Thanks in advance for any feedback :)

Keith

Blue Moon, 5349

Hello Jack,

The solid stainless steel rod holding the white plastic roller holding my anchor failed three months ago, guess where? In the yard while letting down the anchor to measure the chain…

We must be doing something right to deserve such good fortune!

Cheers

silvio Gentile

48/32

That's a nice way to get redundancy from the windlass as a single point failure. I pull my anchor up every time with a bit of relief. Just seems with all the pressure and forces that it's bound to fail. But if it's designed for it.....

Mike Cero

M/V Sea Rose (6605)

Thank you all for the spirited conversation. I am now firmly “anchored” with my decision on the Stainless Steel Lewmar Epsilon anchors for 6047, a 67 foot 126,000 pound vessel. I made the purchase before midnight to get a deal.

Reasons follow:

Primary anchor - 63kg/140lb is what Lewmar recommends for 80-90 foot powerboat.

Secondary anchor - 50kg/110lb is what Lewmar recommends for 70-80 foot powerboat.

I believe bigger is better to a point and these selections follow that belief. The two sizes explained below.

Reviews and Certifications - The Epsilon reviews suggest it is a commendable anchor in almost all conditions, occasionally having difficulty penetrating grass and sea growth covered hard bottoms. Same as all the others.

Certified with Lloyds Test Certification as having “super” holding power as is the Ultra, Vulcan and others.

Cost to value - Hands down Epsilon is the winner. With a special deal from Wholesale Marine (almost 50% off if you are a member and an additional 15% off on purchases before midnight), I purchased a 50kg anchor and 63kg anchor for $6,954.51 including tax and delivery. A single comparable Ultra 80, not oversized but what is recommended for this vessel, cost more than $9,000.00. I am not a penny-pincher, especially when it comes to safety, but this is a big difference.

Beauty - The pretty girls always attracted my attention first. If they also turned out to be winners in the other departments, the complete package is a big winner. Those anchors are right out front for all to see and as much as I resisted in the past, the Ultra look always attracted me - one pretty piece of jewelry. The Epsilon is just as pretty and is the complete package.

Reasoning for slightly smaller secondary anchor on 75’ of chain followed by rope rode - Twice in 25 years of big boats I have had to take an anchor out by tender and kedge off.

Once Shangri-La was backwinded in a cove on the Chesapeake and she and six sailboats anchored with me all sailed right over our anchors and onto a sand bar, and an earlier time in our power catamaran when my then primary Bruce dragged in sand and I needed to take the secondary Delta out to do the same. In each case I was able to drop the smaller anchor, 75’ of chain, and lighter rope rode into my tender, scoot out and kedge off quickly. This is completely impossible to do with all chain.

Second reason is I fear losing my windlass and being unable to raise a lot of chain and heavy anchor. Some of you know the Richard Ossoff story. On our trip from Trinidad to Chesapeake Bay this season we anchored out 135 nights, usually in out of the way places with few services. When I was in the yard on the hard three weeks ago at Washburns Boat Yard in Solomons, Maryland I was reconditioning my anchors, rode and chain lockers. The Maxwell 2200 windlass literally exploded, the motor tearing in half, and totally disabling it. Photo below. No warning and unit was serviced in December. Had this happened down island where there are really no services I would have been out of luck with all chain. I would have likely left the primary behind with a float on it to maybe retrieve later. And I would have been dock to dock until who knows when. With the chain/rope combination I could have continued to anchor successfully without a motor in the windlass, lifting the rode and anchor by hand. My two cents.

Jack

Jack Burgess, Shangri-La 5388

Ah the anchor debate! I can tell you with 20 years of cruising, half way around the world and likely more time on the hook than most.. bigger is better! I still have the Bruce type anchor that came with Furthur. The good fortune was they delivered one for the 59 but I took it on my 48. It sets like a rock, has only moved a few times in extraordinary circumstances like when it landed on an upside down table in Malaysia, I brought it and the table up! It did prevent mounting a 2nd anchor, but that has never been a problem, my spare is in the port side locker still in the plastic wrapper. I have yet to see anyone actually deploy 2 anchors at once in the 16 countries I have anchored in although I do hear it is more common in the Caribbean. Looking at the cost of some of the newer styles, yikes, my ol Bruce is looking good! Haha.
Also the discussion about scope: in the PNW I often used 4or5 to 1 scope. I quickly learned, ok not so quickly but the 5th time I had to dive down in shark invested waters to up wrap my chain from the coral bommies, I adapted the practice of 3-1, saved the coral and saved me maybe. Still using 3-1 to this day.

Cheers
Brian Calvert
M/Y Furthur
Philippines

Dear All,

Just my experience, with my Mantus M2 175 lb 75 kg I sleep beautiful dreams even when it’s blowing.

Here in the Med, mainly anchoring in sand, it sets immediately and even more importantly resets also with 180 degrees wind change.

I had her painted a year ago a beautiful silver grey and paint is still holding.

No she doesn’t shine like an ultra but it has her own good looks.

The Mantus bridle and swivel are also nice pieces of equipment

As I said my experience is limited to sand though.

Silvio Gentile

Kamik 49/32

Jack-

Thanks for your endorsement of the Vulcan based on your actual experience.

Good to see Jack!!

The beautiful one piece Epsilon is available in Stainless steel. It is new generation like the Ultra and tests as well or better in reviews. Today I can buy two, a 50kg and a 63kg, for less than the price of one Ultra. I ain’t gonna put no galvanized eyesore up there on the Princess’ pulpit!

Jack

Jack Burgess, Shangri-La 5388

Jack,

I considered all of your candidates except the Sarca. I have a Vulcan 55 and love it for our 53’, but as you say it is the largest Vulcan and not really big enough for the new boat. It could be used as a secondary, and is available in SS for around $4,500, but it would not fit under the bow pulpit with the Lewmar Epsilon as well as two Epsilons would. I am likely going for a matched set in two sizes.

I can tell you that you will not go wrong with a Vulcan for any Selene up to a 55. I stopped using an anchor alarm after several years of pure delight with mine and having it hold in 50 plus mph winds in sketchy bottom conditions. That night I watched the folks in smaller sailing boats boats as they all peered upwind to where we were, wondering if we would drag down on them. No problem!

Jack

Jack Burgess, Shangri-La 5388

We have a Delta plow and a Bruce. We have exclusively used the Bruce with consistent success. Ironically I thought I wouldn't like it but it has been quick setting and reliable. The biggest blow we have been anchored in so far has been a 40kt wind so nothing crazy but also not trivial. When we cruised New England this last month the Bruce did great with the changing tides that alter your swing by 180 degrees every 6 hours.

I was planning on replacing one of our anchors with a more new fangled / fancy one.

My short list is:

1. Rocna Vulcan (I don't think the traditional / MK II's roll bar is compatible with the pulpit on the 53)

2. Mantus M2

3. Sarca Excel

4. Ultra

I agree that Ultra sure looks nice and people who own them swear by them...but man oh man I don't know if I can part with that much money for an anchor. I also agree that there have been situations over my boating 'career' that the anchor stayed on the bottom.

The downside of the Vulcan is that I don't think they make them big enough for your upcoming boat - the reason I didn't pick one up when they had a sale a while back was that I was somewhat hesitant that the 55kg would be sufficient for a 53.

The Sarca you can get up to at least 105kg but it seems to be a challenge to source in the US.

The Mantus comes in up to 80kg which should be more than enough for a 53 (I think?) and maybe would be sufficient for your new boat.

I am here fighting off the Covid I acquired on the 30 hour trip on multiple planes we enjoyed (ha!) coming back from the yard in China 3 days ago, and can’t start my prescribed Paxlovid course until tomorrow as it interacts badly with the statin I take for HBP and must refrain from for 24 hours before ingesting the wonder drug (getting old ain’t for the faint of heart). And ordering anchors.

I would maybe rather die than leave a $15,000 Ultra laying on the bottom when my windlass explodes (happened to me two or three weeks ago in the yard at Washburn’s) or the anchor gets stuck in the rocks with 300’ of chain out and I must cut it loose, so that is not an option for my desired big anchor. Therefore, rising to the top of the heap is the Lewmar SS Epsilon which is still all one piece SS, pretty and shiny and heavy enough to hold the 67’ 126,000 pound Ocean Explorer firmly attached to the bottom (IMHO). At about one-third the cost of the Ultra.

Going big is reputedly always better, the adage being “my anchor is not big enough until folks walking down the dock laugh when they see it.” I pretty much agree. I am thinking two Epsilons, the smaller on mostly rope rode (I have good reasons for that - later) weighing 50kg/110lbs and the larger on all chain weighing 63kg/140lbs. According to the Lewmar websites, both of these anchors are more than adequate for the vessel.

Comments please? Let the anchor wars begin!

Jack

Jack Burgess, Shangri-La 5388